Session+Two

=== ﻿ Think about your experiences with group work. To you, what is the most challenging aspect of working within a group? Describe your challenges below and strategies to address these issues. Respond to some of your classmates with suggestions for their challenges. ===

Julie W-Assigning group work can be a very tricky thing. I've only had one experience with online group work which really wasn't group work as much as it was dividing the text to be read into chunks. There was no group discussion or group posting. When a teacher is in a f2f situation, he/she can purposefully arrange groups based on the needs and abilities of the students. However, I'm concerned with how to "purposefully" plan groups in an online course when it's difficult to assess the learners needs and abilities. I agree that many students do not prefer group assignments where one grade is given to all group members. I prefer to create assignments where all members of the group are responsible for a portion of the assignment and grades are given independently. I think we can all learn from others in a group setting (which is the ultimate goal) but putting that learning into 1 assignment can be daunting for the perfectionist, over-achiever, and independent worker. I'm in full agreement with Leigh-Ann and Sherry ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Leigh-Ann: It is evident that the majority of us have somewhat of a negative view of group work. For me, I have never enjoyed group work, because I have always been the Type A personality of "I will do it all myself to ensure that it gets done and done correctly." People are so different in their work values and ethics and I personally have never been one to be satisfied with "just enough," I tend to be driven for the "A plus!" I agree with Sherry that group work needs to be individually assigned tasks that can be put together for the one project.

Sherry-I concur with everyone below...group work is great if you are the kind of person that doesn't care and lets everyone else do your work. Well, needless to say, I am the kind of person that does not tolerate the "procrastinator", So I do all the work or at least the work of the absent group member. Group work needs to have individiual tasks that when put together they make a whole. That way you can have members graded individually. If everyone did their work the final project will be complete. This will expose the member that is absent and does nothing.

// Susan ~ // Because of the experience that I had with the particular **//Decision MakingTree Group//** that I explained below, the most challenging aspect of working within a group is actually **doing the project and completing it on time!** //LOL// The challenges were deciding who would be the presenter and recorder, keeping the group on the subject, keeping the group on task, and completing the assignment on time. Looking back we could have written Presenter and Recorder on pieces of paper and drawed to see who would have those responsibilities. Someone should have re-directed our discussion to keep us on task, and suggested that rest room breaks should be taken only when needed, and snack breaks should be taken, when the assignment was completed. I didn’t have those leadership skills. I had such a low self-esteem, that I was doing well, just to be a part of the group. // Susan ~ // I answered the question below because I found it, in the Session Two of our course regarding our Wiki: //This week, take some time to reflect back on an experience you have had working with groups (either online or face-to-face). In the table provided on the wiki, describe one challenge you have had with the group process. Return to the wiki throughout the week to read the challenges posted by others and offer suggestions to address them. //   // Susan ~ // I remember one course at the UA Gadsden Center in which we worked in a f2f group. We had one hour to set up a //Decision Making Tree//. It was a nightmare. The instructor put us into groups of five. We had to have a leader/presenter and a recorder. The recorder had to draw the diagram/tree. No one would volunteer to present it to the class. After struggling with that, and no one taking the position, we just moved on to working on the tree. Just after three tasks were added to the Tree, one particular member strayed and used our time talking about other things. Then some strayed to the rest room, some went outside and smoked, while others went to get snacks, etc. When it was time to present, we still didn’t have a presenter, and we had not finished the task. Most of us were very stressed. Finally, when the instructor asked if we were ready to present, **one man, said yes, stood up, walked to the front, with unfinished sketch in hand, and winged it! //LOL//**  **//Connie: Susan I have been in those classes and those groups.....and it was usually dumped into my lap. I was always the one who had to "wing it" or pull it together for a grade. I think the term to describe the activity of the smokers, 'snackers' and others is "social loafing." If I had a nickel for every meeting I have sat through or for every education course that I have taken, you and I could retire to Jamaica in style.//** 

Looking over Susan's experience with group activity, I can honestly feel your pain. This was a raised eye-brow occasion, occurring at one of those two-days workshops, where travel was involoved. The last presentation after a long two days of intense sessions should have been canceled. The presentation was barely relevant to the makeup of the workshop. It was easily to tell that this was something to make up time. The presenter's presentation was a simple powerpoint, that she read from, and at the end of each frame, she wanted defined groups to come up with solutions, and present at the end of her inactment. No one in the group want to raise a finger to do anything. As in your group, their were no one volunteering to do anything, this was embarassing all around. There were next to no comments from the group. This was turning out to be one of the worst events I had ever attended, especially when I had paid $200.00 to attend. Charles

//The main problem I have had with groups is the same as yours. The people in many groups just don't want to do anything. Sometimes it is better to do a project alone. I do know cooperative learning helps. I used it in my Chemistry and Physics classes. The students who understood the material would help students in their group (usually lab partners) understand. It did not always work but usually students did well in these situations. "Grouping" students does not usually work well because there are always students who just do not care. I do not enjoy grouping in my classes even thought I try at least a couple of times a year in projects. I was an "Army brat" growing up and learned that being self-suffiecient was absolutely necessay. Pam//

Jacqui here - week before last I attend a required training. ALSDE could solve all of it's money problems by doing away with unnecessary sessions such as what I sat through. There were eight state employees present who read off slides, then treated us like children in the classroom. There was no rhyme or reason to the way we were grouped. It would have been beneficial for all schools from our county to sit together. We could then bring the information back and use for later training. As it was, we worked with a group from Marengo County that we won't see again.

I have been in group presentations that were excellent. I guess it all depends on how involved you are in the topic, how the presentation is set up, how prepared the presenters are, etc.

Annette--I have been in many groups and most of time end up doing all of the work myself because members will not do their part. I am one who does not like to procrastinate and want to make sure if I am group leader that the assignment is turned in correctly and on time. This, of course, is not true all of the time, but I would say it is true about 90% of the time. There last incident was last year when I was in charge a portion for SACS accreditation and members were assigned tasks, but I never could get anyone of them to report back to me, so I did it all. I am sure many of you have been in the same boat. //Hi Annette, I find myself in situations like you described. I hate to say but I like input from others but prefer to complete final products independently. Sometimes it's just so hard to work with groups that have more members than the assignments need. It's just easier to do the work! I know that's a sad attitude to have. //

Finally, here are the six phases of teaching on the wiki! [] We have been laughing with for a while at Hayden. Pam

Hi Pam, I have been in similar situations and they are not at all fun. I hate to feel as though I have to do the all of the work because others will not carry their load. In the end I hope that the others saw how hard you had to work and at least thanked you. - Heather

Group work vs. Collaboration: I, personally, have had no luck in groups. However, when students, or teachers, get together to collaborate or "cooperate" in the learning process everyone gains. The final project should be individual. That gives the student who does nothing in the group will still be responsible for their own grade. There are always opportunities to work together in a class setting. The final "grade" or result is always individual. It is the product of what you as an individual put into the process. Pam

Pam: I agree that group work can be difficult. When we deal with groups as an instructor or as an administrator it often appears they deteriorate into controlled chaos. As professionals we tend to become isolated within the school setting. This isolation is as first uncomfortable, but after a while it is easier to stay "away from the herd" instead of joining. Perhaps the ever increasing workload and the natural constraints of the education setting contribute to this island mentality. We dread faculty meetings, department meetings, committee meetings, testing meetings, IEP meetings, 504 meetings, parent-teacher meetings. . . need I say more? If we step back for just a moment and examine our behaviors they seem logical at first but then we must examine the context of those meetings. Generally, we do not choose those groups, we do not choose those participants, and we certainly would not choose to donate those time slots to the groups. We enter into those meetings with a prejudicial attitude. We have so much we could contribute, but we sit there waiting for the time we can leave. If we change the way we form groups to allow some choice and autonomy we might see professional groups as a positive collaborative experience. We chose to be a part of this online course and our attitudes are evidence of that autonomy of choice. Connie _ __Group work is very tricky. I have had several parents over the years tell me that they had rather their children not have group work. This was due to the fact that that parent thought that his/her child had to do all of the work for the "group" project. However, when facilitated correctly group work can be great, but it takes a lot of work on the teacher's part. The teacher should be able to identify who works well together and who does not, who goofs off together and who doesn't. The final grade, as Pam has already pointed out, should always be individual. This just holds every member accountable for his/her actions. __

__When I was in school I was one who did not like group work because I felt that I sometimes had to pull the weight of the whole group. Everyone in the group received the same grade no matter how much that he or she helped out with the project. I remember making a mental note to never do that same thing to my students. So now when we have group work in my class, I very carefully oversee the progress of the work. __

__<span style="color: #0000ff; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS',cursive;">Heather __

__Sherry-That is why you need to have individual activities in the group so you can grade them seperately. This will expose the absent member and they will be graded accordingly.__

__Ginger- I agree that group work can be tricky and yet it can be very rewarding. While at Auburn we had several projects that required group work. For the most part they were great because it forced us to make friends with classmates that we wouldn't have other wise. I have a dear friend today because of group work.__

___ Sharon here: I have personally been involved in very little group work. Old school here of individual assignments and grading. One of the few times I worked in a group was when I was at a local university working on my administrative certification and we worked in groups in a finance course. I was not impressed. It was rather benign. The subject was boring and because none of us had experience working in administration there was no urgency or prior knowledge.

When my boys were in school I saw the outcome of group work in a negative way through my vacarious experience with their work. The boys had been taught to always do their best and work hard. They would get so exasperated at school working in groups. So many kids at that time had no desire to work hard or put forth much effort. The boys often expressed their frustration with other members of the group not doing their work. Because my own boys wanted to make a good grade they often took up the slack. All received the same grade. Heather, their experience was much like your own.

(I think I may have messed up someone else's addition to this page. I am so sorry. I don't understand what to do when there is more than me trying to add to the page.)

Jacqui (again) - Several years ago I took some class at UWA and we kept being assigned group work.I, personally, am not a group work type person - I don't like my grade hingeing on someone else's work. As I think back over that experience I realize they never told us the purpose. If it had been explained to us why we were in a group and the end goal, that may have made a difference in attitude and performance.

Charles here: As I see with many of us, we just don't care for group work. I am very much like Jacqui in one of her statements, I do not like for my grade to depend on others to create something to represent me, when my grade hangs in the balance. Reading though the discussions this evening, Wanda established purposeful examples of group activity. That finally focused some light on the subject.

Hey Sharon- Don't worry about deleting my post. I am really having trouble adding meaningful comments to this discussion. I cannot even remember what I wrote before, so that tells me that it was not insightful. My thought on groups is: I look forward to having meaningful dialog with others in a group setting, but do not like group projects for many of the same reasons stated before. In the online class setting all online group projects I have had have been painfully slow, hurry up, painfully slow again. Google docs might have helped with that, would definitely try it if I had one to do. Michele

I've had lots of experience doing group work in an online class. I received my Master's Degree online. It worked well, we knew what the expectations were and the consequences for not performing our task. I see that I am probably just about the only person (and Heather) who sees a place for group work in online classes. I believe that it takes planning and management to pull off effective group work. I took an eLearning class this summer about special education students in the regular education class. To me, it would have been helpful to be placed in groups, either by grade level or subject, so that we could share specific examples of differentiated instruction with special education students in our particular setting. I do acknowledge the fact that some people won't pull their weight, that's where your skills as an online facilitator come in. There has to be a procedure in place (consequences) to deal with a student that does not do their work. The faciliator should be overseeing the group's work, so they should know which group member or members are not contributing to the assignment. Wanda

Charles here: I have not had the experience of external grouping (not consisting of known individuals in the same local) but did have an experience with a cohert group at my school, where we part of an eLearning forum. I am sure as time passes and if the powers that be, are paying attention to our wiki, there will be some eLearning courses with a group activity designed into the course, especially since Wanda and Heather are the only ones that has expressed a positive response to online group activity.